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Pete, it depends on which end of Via Ulisse Rocchi he was walking from.

Do you know the location of Tana Dell'Orso on Via Ullisse Rocchi?

The Machine wrote:

I can hardly make out the figure that is supposed to be Meredith. Maybe, Rudy did right tell his friend that he had arranged to meet up with a woman, but the woman wasn't Meredith, but Amanda. I don't believe Rudy's account of what happened that night. There must have been a meeting between Rudy and Amanda, and probably Raffaele, before they all attacked Meredith.

I got the same feeling from that fleeting, ghostly image. I was immediately reminded of the television recontruction of the CCTV footage (the latter allegedly showing Amanda Knox but deemed inadmissible because the quality was too ppor). The reason is that, as I recall, the reconstruction shows a woman in white who looks oddly tall (due to a lens distortion?) walking away from the camera. This could be totally off the wall, but that earlier reconstructed image came to mind immediately when I tried to see what was in this video.

Sorry Margaret but I still think you are wrong (too) and saying I apologise when you do not mean it is not much of a tenderiser. It's smug.

Did you really need to involve Steve?

You made a show of criticising Soozie. To try now to make out she is not to be trusted as a way of denying you are also wrong is lame in my opinion.

Soozie only posted that PM because you ignored her and would not back down, like give and take when you had been rash towards her, talking down to her, and ordering her to apologise to Michael.

That's my opinion, and I have a right to express it.

Trying to put her down even more by implying Soozie is not trustworthy and is likely to post people's PM's is very nasty is a low blow, you do not need to revert to such ploys surely to get your own way.

Terry

FAST PETE
Of course Soozie was grateful that someone got it across that Wilkes was causing ill-feelings, It is that to her, it seemed like you, relatively new here, said something and your wish was command, when many others were fed up with Wilkes and his fixed agenda and nothing happened, it has nothing to do with any dislike of you.

Soozie was led to believe Wilkes was to be banned.

She said this the other day, that 'Wilkes was BANNED' and was pulled up about saying he was 'banned' because he apparently was not banned but only 'suspended' the person doing the pulling up on that point, was the same person that led Soozie to believe it was about a ban.
Is that Soozie's fault?
Is she wrong to feel upset for being pulled up and accused of having her facts wrong.
If she did have them wrong then it was partly to do with misinformation.

So is Soozie wrong then to talk according to what she was told?

Brian S. wrote:Pete, it depends on which end of Via Ulisse Rocchi he was walking from.

Do you know the location of Tana Dell'Orso on Via Ullisse Rocchi?

Yes. It is about half way down. Maybe 200 meters from the gate. The "natural" way down is through the city gate and across the square and the T-junction to the house. Maybe 5 minutes.

And even if Rudy headed uphill (though why?) the route he is most likely to take back down again is this one: the Via Bartolo.

Any route that takes him down by way of the parking facility is a very long way around. A very strange route.

There's a reason I'm puzzled which hits you more, I guess, when you have been there: below the English girls' house and below Le Chic it is a very quiet neighborhood.

Very quiet indeed. Almost scary in fact - though Meredith headed through it on her own.

One of my first posts on the board (I think from Perugia) was to point out that Le Chic is not exactly the hub of the universe.

Use of the steel stairs only takes you to and from that very quiet, out-of-the-way neighborhood. Same with the parking facility deck.

I'd be surprised if the girls ever walked it more than a very few times - Amanda to Le Chic and Meredith (maybe) to the English girls' house.

So, Guede, tell us more.

TLC

I understand you going to bat for soozie. Completely. I understand her position. I am stubborn, too. I get into more of those kinds of problems than is healthy for me.

But this whole issue is just such a non-starter. She may not have 'wanted to' post the PM (what part of the PRIVATE in the PM do you not understand), but she did. She may not be at risk to do it again, but she did. Rules is rules. Apologize and move on.

In a similar light, assuming guilt of AK and RS, I bet they did not 'mean to do it" and I would imagine they could honestly say they would never do it again. I would believe both statements.

But they (allegedly) did. And that is why we are all truly here.

As was said in that wonderful Monty Python movie:

This is supposed to be a happy occasion!
Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who

Brian S. wrote:Pete, it depends on which end of Via Ulisse Rocchi he was walking from.

Do you know the location of Tana Dell'Orso on Via Ullisse Rocchi?

Pete, look at the location given on the Tana site then zoom in one more time with a bit of shift on the Google map.

Wouldn't Rudy have cut through that side road into Via Bartolo, straight across Via Pintericchio towards the car park?

There's a reason I'm puzzled which hits you more, I guess, when you have been there: below the English girls' house and below Le Chic it is a very quiet neighborhood.

Very quiet indeed. Almost scary in fact - though Meredith headed through it on her own.

One of my first posts on the board (I think from Perugia) was to point out that Le Chic is not exactly the hub of the universe.

Use of the steel stairs only takes you to and from that very quiet, out-of-the-way neighborhood. Same with the parking facility deck.

I'd be surprised if the girls ever walked it more than a very few times - Amanda to Le Chic and Meredith (maybe) to the English girls' house.

So, Guede, tell us more.


Pete,

I suspect he has in his interviews with Mignini which we haven't yet seen. This video must be known to Mignini, Meredith may be hard to identify but I suspect Rudy isn't. You can bet Mignini wanted to know the exact route taken by Rudy.

I won't argue over which way may be best because you have seen the location. It doesn't appear to me there is much difference in distance. Also, what may appear to you as a dark and quiet neighborhood may not generate the same feelings in Rudy walking about his home town. Even the residents must live there.

Brian S. wrote:

Brian S. wrote:Pete, it depends on which end of Via Ulisse Rocchi he was walking from.

Do you know the location of Tana Dell'Orso on Via Ullisse Rocchi?

Pete, look at the location given on the Tana site then zoom in one more time with a bit of shift on the Google map.

Wouldn't Rudy have cut through that side road into Via Bartolo, straight across Via Pintericchio towards the car park?

Either way, you end up in the square. You are almost as far away from the steel steps as if you came down the most direct route.

Via Bartolo (see the last of these shots) comes out by the city gate (if you follow the road down) or by the top of the stone steps (if you follow the steps down).

Here are the steps I am referring to.

Frankly, Rudy took a very strange route.

Could he have been STALKING Meredith? The thought has crossed my mind several times, though I don't have a full scenario for this.

friend of Peltier wrote:In a similar light, assuming guilt of AK and RS, I bet they did not 'mean to do it" and I would imagine they could honestly say they would never do it again. I would believe both statements.

But they (allegedly) did. And that is why we are all truly here.

I would believe neither statements. The torture, sexual assault and exceptionally brutal murder of Meredith was not some prank that went too far or game that went wrong. This was a series of acts of deliberate and incomprehensible cruelty that could only be carried out by people who are truly evil and sick in the head. The fatal wound was delivered with such violence that it left a huge, gaping hole in Meredith's neck. I felt dizzy and sick when I unwittingly saw the police footage of Meredith's body.

Of course they meant to do it. Amanda carried the knife from Raffaele's apartment and obviously used it. Amanda and Raffaele turned their mobile phones shortly before they attacked her, tortured her, forced her at knife point into sexual activity with Rudy Guede and cutting her twice on the neck and then plunging a knife into her neck. Sexual assault isn't a game or a prank. Torturing someone with a knife isn't a game or prank. Brutally murdering someone isn't a game or a prank. There was nothing accidental about these actions. I'm sorry to break this to you, but some people are evil.

The judges at the Italian Supreme Court refused to grant Amanda and Raffaele bail on the grounds that they were dangerous and mentally unstable. Amanda and Raffaele have never shown any remorse for what they've done and went to great lengths to cover their tracks. Raffaele said he wanted to drive over the head of one of the female judges in the case and not stop driving. Given his track record of violence towards innocent women, I believe him. They are monsters and they should never be released from prison.

Brian S. wrote:Also, what may appear to you as a dark and quiet neighborhood may not generate the same feelings in Rudy walking about his home town. Even the residents must live there.

I would live there. It's distinctly pretty - I have several posts of shots of it coming up. But one does not see a lot of pedestrians around there, at any time.

I dont think Rudy was just taking the evening air. Something nefarious was going down, and he is covering it up.

It is time to stop discussing this matter on the board. I apologize to all the posters and lurkers whose level of frustration must be very high.

This is an order. Steve Huff has spoken. It is his right. It is his board. We co-own it. We are only asking that the most basic rule of board etiquette be respected. Anyone who thinks that is an unreasonable thing to require needs to stop posting here.

In answer to the question was it necessary to ask Steve to step in: yes, I guess it was because apparently not everyone understands why it is never okay to post a PM. There are zero exceptions to this. And please don't bring up Minotaur. Minotaur made a mistake, immediately recognized it and never again posted a PM. It happened in the very first days of this board and the issue of never posting PMs and why was discussed as a result of that. So if you want to use Minotaur as an example, go all the way and recognize that it is not okay no matter what your motivation.

What needs to happen next is clear.

And it needs to happen quickly or the board will be shut down for a week.

I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE TO THOSE WHO WOULD BE UNFAIRLY PUNISHED IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN.

SB (Co-moderator and Co-administrator)

P.S. Sorry for all those caps the first time. My keyboard was stuck.

Pete,

Why go to the end of Via Bartolo? Why not use the cut which goes across between Via Bartolo, Via Volpe, right a little across Via Pintericchio and cut though to Via Melo and be right above the car park.

My point is that it may not be the nicest and simplest street way to make the journey but it certainly has relation to how a crow would fly between the two locations. Locals know all the alleys.

Hello, This is the first time I've posted here but I've been following this case since watching a 2 minute news article on my local news (in Australia) back in Nov 07.
I've posted over at IW's blog but of course was shot down in flames so I've been lurking in the shadows ever since (that woman is vile).

I just wanted to say that with regards to the car park footage, I always thought it was Amanda who was wearing a light coloured skirt and top- I remember reading this many months ago when they stated she was filmed walking and could only be seen due to her light coloured clothing. Wasn't Meredith wearing dark clothing ie jeans that night?

The next few weeks are very important. I'd hate to see this message board closed down for any length of time. I hope everyone stays focused on what truly is important.

Brian S. wrote:Pete,

Why go to the end of Via Bartolo? Why not use the cut which goes across between Via Bartolo, Via Volpe, right a little across Via Pintericchio and cut though to Via Melo and be right above the car park.

My point is that it may not be the nicest and simplest street way to make the journey but it certainly has relation to how a crow would fly between the two locations. Locals know all the alleys.

The crow would fly straight down the street Guede was already in, across the square and the T-junction, and so to the house.

This is turning a 400-yard walk into a walk closer to 1000 yards. There is no way that the steel steps and parking facility are the fast way down. It involves for example doubling all the way back along the top of the parking facility, when the stone steps by the basketball court are right there.

Okay, here's a new theory for you for why he walked that route.

First, another key point about the neighborhood. The square is ALWAYS BUSY. Some 24 hours a day there are people there. Rudy lived off the top of Garibaldi, and must have often passed through that square. Students are there, homeless people, tourists, shoppers, and so on.

Rudy might normally expect to be recognised by 5-10-15 people in that square.

If he was doing something nefarious, or planning something nefarious, down at the house, or was stalking Meredith, and wanting to keep his mug in the shadows...

He would have taken the route he took. Otherwise, I think not.

I dont think Rudy was just taking the evening air. Something nefarious was going down, and he is covering it up.

I'm not saying it wasn't.

But what I do say is that the camera confirms Rudy's arrival in the area at the time he said he arrived.

It confirms that Meredith arrived after him if the video and accompanying text from TG are taken at face value.

He wasn't with Amanda or Raffaele at that time.

Nothing happened to Meredith in the forty minutes between Rudy's arrival in the vicinity of the cottage and Meredith's phone call to her mother.

In short, it is entirely consistent with what Rudy states in his diary up until just before 9:00pm. It does not confirm anything which he says after that time.

The Machine wrote:

The next few weeks are very important. I'd hate to see this message board closed down for any length of time. I hope everyone stays focused on what truly is important.

I would hate to see that as well.
If anyone wants to talk about the fairness of Steve's rule or anything related to it, please use the PM function. Leave this space wide open for discussion of what is going on in Perugia.

Welcome Ozzie!

In response to this:

I just wanted to say that with regards to the car park footage, I always thought it was Amanda who was wearing a light coloured skirt and top- I remember reading this many months ago when they stated she was filmed walking and could only be seen due to her light coloured clothing. Wasn't Meredith wearing dark clothing ie jeans that night?

That's what I thought and that's why the image from today threw me. Didn't RS say the poor girl left abruptly at 4 pm wearing her ex-boyfirend's levis? And weren't these found on the floor?

Brian... Why was Rudy anywhere near the house, again?

Frankly, we dont know. We generally doubt that he had a date with Meredith.

Like Machine, I dont trust the diary. It shades the truth to his advantage.

I think he was quite possibly hiding his mug. Therefore the route that he took.

The pause in the proceedings after he arrived can be explained by the later arrival of Knox and Sollecito.

ozzie wrote:Hello, This is the first time I've posted here but I've been following this case since watching a 2 minute news article on my local news (in Australia) back in Nov 07.
I've posted over at IW's blog but of course was shot down in flames so I've been lurking in the shadows ever since (that woman is vile).

I just wanted to say that with regards to the car park footage, I always thought it was Amanda who was wearing a light coloured skirt and top- I remember reading this many months ago when they stated she was filmed walking and could only be seen due to her light coloured clothing. Wasn't Meredith wearing dark clothing ie jeans that night?

Hi Ozzie,

Yes, she was wearing dark clothing as you say. But maybe she had on a white coat for the walk back? The weather was turning. Early November and evening temperatures down to about 50F(I did check the weather some time back).

Like Machine, I dont trust the diary. It shades the truth to his advantage.

And nor do I.

But this evidence does confirm his version up until 9:00pmish. I really don't think he will have made up the meeting with Philip. That would be asking for trouble and I can't believe that if he didn't, Philip's statement to the contrary would have been leaked already. Rudy would already have been a proven liar. At the moment he isn't.

It's what can be proven in court that counts. Is there a witness to Rudy stalking Meredith?

ozzie wrote:Hello, This is the first time I've posted here but I've been following this case since watching a 2 minute news article on my local news (in Australia) back in Nov 07.
I've posted over at IW's blog but of course was shot down in flames so I've been lurking in the shadows ever since (that woman is vile).

I just wanted to say that with regards to the car park footage, I always thought it was Amanda who was wearing a light coloured skirt and top- I remember reading this many months ago when they stated she was filmed walking and could only be seen due to her light coloured clothing. Wasn't Meredith wearing dark clothing ie jeans that night?

Hi Ozzie!

Glad you came over here!

The carpark video is so hard to see! But it sure look like a flash of white. I think we can safely say Meredith was wearing jeans and a white t-shirt (from the crime scene video). Kermit posted a picture I'd not seen before of a blue sweatshirt with blood all over it. It was a few days ago. Was Meredith wearing that sweatshirt?

Brian S. wrote:But this evidence does confirm his version up until 9:00pmish.

No it doesnt.

It doesnt explain why Rudy chose the much longer furtive route in the shadows, well over 10 minutes, when he could have walked directly to the house in maybe 5 minites.

Here is a map of the two routes.

The route in black is the direct route via the gate, the square and the t-junction.

The route in red is AT MINIMUM the route Rudy took so as to exit the parking building by the ramp above the house.

Still seeing nothing peculiar about that?

ozzie wrote:Hello, This is the first time I've posted here but I've been following this case since watching a 2 minute news article on my local news (in Australia) back in Nov 07.
I've posted over at IW's blog but of course was shot down in flames so I've been lurking in the shadows ever since (that woman is vile).

I just wanted to say that with regards to the car park footage, I always thought it was Amanda who was wearing a light coloured skirt and top- I remember reading this many months ago when they stated she was filmed walking and could only be seen due to her light coloured clothing. Wasn't Meredith wearing dark clothing ie jeans that night?

[font=Comic Sans MS]Hi Ozzie and welcome to the board

It's an interesting question. As Brian says , Meredith may have just been wearing a light coloured coat, but...I don't recall seeing a light coloured coat in the crime scene photos, at least not in the room (or the wardrobe). I'll have to have a look at the photos again to see if there's one hanging in the kitchen or hallway. Would she have bothered wearing one for a walk that wasn't that far away? The fact is, we have no idea what Meredith 'was' wearing that night. There are items of clothing on her floor, but was she wearing all of those things? The only items I'm 'sure' about was the top she was wearing...and the bra. Many of us keep thinking of a certain batch of washing in the washing machine. However, her girlfriends will certainly know what she was wearing that night...so the police know, therefore the court will know at which point, hopefully, so shall we.[/font]

Pete,

That map really puts things in perspective. What an odd route to take? Where on your route does Meredith come into the picture? Thanks!

Pete,

Do the steps come up right at the end of Via Melo or halfway along?

Ozzie,
I thought that too.
Knox was reportedly wearing white/light clothing and Meredith jeans.
Also when Meredith arrived back at the house from her friends place, I thought she came from the other direction?
In other words if it is Meredith captured on the CCTV, shouldn't she have been walking from right to left and would it have been possible to capture her at all?
I think it's Knox on the CCTV.

DeathFish 2000 wrote:Ozzie,
I thought that too.
Knox was reportedly wearing white/light clothing and Meredith jeans.
Also when Meredith arrived back at the house from her friends place, I thought she came from the other direction?
In other words if it is Meredith captured on the CCTV, shouldn't she have been walking from right to left and would it have been possible to capture her at all?
I think it's Knox on the CCTV.

Kermit, went through this some time ago. It's unlikely that Meredith would have used the steps through the car park because it's so dark through there. She is likely to have come further along to the exact same steps which Pete is saying Rudy should have come down also. The image of Meredith on the CCTV is consistent with that route.


EDIT:

Now that is interesting. Rudy could have seen Meredith coming along Via Pintericchio, cut through the car park to arrive at the cottage first whilst Meredith continued on past the car park steps to come round the long way(for her).

Brian S. wrote:Do the steps come up right at the end of Via Melo or halfway along?

At the east end. There is a passage on either side of the large post office building from Via Pinturicchio which enters a small plaza, and the steel stairs head down from there.

That plaza offers very good views down at the house.

Frankly, the steel stairs are not used very much, by anyone; they clang alarmingly for one thing. Other than drivers returning to their cars, the steel stairs dont really take you anywhere.

I could imagine Rudy living nearby for years, and not even knowing that the steel stairs are there - though they do seem quite new.

If Rudy was being REALLY furtive he would have gone down into Via Melo (via the stone steps or a short passage) and along that passage.

But taking Via Pinturicchio looks plenty furtive to me!

ozzie

This had been reported earlier:

‘The images appear to show Ms Knox wearing a light coloured skirt and top entering the building at 8.43pm on 1 November, the night Ms Kercher was killed.’

The major hitch I have with that is they are now saying that Meredith’s image appeared at 8:53 pm. vs. 8:43 pm for Amanda. A ten minute difference in arrivals. Could the previous papers have misreported the time wrong by 10 min.? Possible? Also the recreation of Amanda’s entrance made it appear as though she was walking thru the car park. Everybody is making valid points on this.

Tara wrote:Pete,

That map really puts things in perspective. What an odd route to take? Where on your route does Meredith come into the picture? Thanks!

You want the Meredith route too?! For you, Tara, of course! Check back in half an hour.

I have already noted that Meredith coming down the stone stairs is to me peculiar. There are two peculiarities:

1) Rudy coming down the steel steps.

2) Meredith coming down the stone steps.

Each added some extra walking to their route. Each should logically have done the opposite.

I agree with Ozzie and company: that may not even have been Meredith.

Interesting interview to Maresca, from Affari Italiani
http://tinyurl.com/4jjvo8

Will try to provide a translation tomorrow if someone doesn't do it before. Very briefly, Maresca -who has read all of the Scientific police reports- says:
-He believes all three are guilty of murdering Meredith
-It took Meredith about 10 minutes to die so she coud have been saved
-Besides Kokomani, there are other witnesses saying the three knew each other
-The main motive was sexual and the money theft was associated to the crime and not the reason for it

He says he saw Rudy and Amanda in court and it was so clear that they were lying from looking at their faces ( ce l'hanno scritto in faccia)

There also an interview to Biscotti but he is singing the same song: Rudy is innocent, he had sex with the consenting victim, he was in the bathroom for 12 minutes while the other two killed Meredith, and he is asking his client to be acquitted.

Something to bare in mind about those dark steps through the car park. Rudy is a guy.

When I was twenty years old and if I needed too, I wouldn't have thought anything of looking for some dark corner to take a leak before I arrived. It really isn't form to arrive and immediately ask for the loo. Just to let you girls now how 20 year old guys can think and behave.

Okay, this one is for Tara.

This is a map of Meredith's probable route home.

The route in black is her probable path home, down by way of the stone stairs.

The route in blue is the one that Rudy took and that Meredith could have taken to save two or three minutes (it is well lit).

The section in red is where Rudy and Meredith would have been coming toward one another IF they were both walking at the same time, which we assume for now they were not.

(See also, of course, Kermit's explanation of Meredith's walks, which I think still stand up after many months.)

.


Google translation of Nicki's link 2 pages.


The boys downstairs say the three all knew each other. I think???? does someone else want to try for a translation that what Maresca is saying about Kokomani's evidence is that it may not put the 3 together on the night but it puts them together at some time

Brian S. wrote:Rudy is a guy. When I was twenty years old and if I needed too, I wouldn't have thought anything of looking for some dark corner to take a leak before I arrived.

That's stretching it. You're channeling Wilkes here, right?!

Listen, go to Vegas.

Get a great deal on an exorcism. Special chapels and all....

Fast Pete wrote:

Brian S. wrote:Rudy is a guy. When I was twenty years old and if I needed too, I wouldn't have thought anything of looking for some dark corner to take a leak before I arrived.

That's stretching it. You're channeling Wilkes here, right?!

Listen, go to Vegas.

Get a great deal on an exorcism. Special chapels and all....

PISS OFF

Brian wrote:

When I was twenty years old and if I needed too, I wouldn't have thought anything of looking for some dark corner to take a leak before I arrived. It really isn't form to arrive and immediately ask for the loo. Just to let you girls now how 20 year old guys can think and behave.

It often goes on well after the age of 20.


There has been no apology to the board so far and I don't know when Steve plans to pull the plug for a week and then maybe for good.

I agree with The Machine that this is a critical time to keep the board open. It may be possible to negotiate a cut-off time with Steve that would allow those who want to continue discussing the case enoug time to find another suitable forum.

If interested Frank has a new post. He doesn’t think that Rudy or Meredith appear on that video. I’m not sure I follow some of his other logic though.

DLW wrote:

If interested Frank has a new post. He doesn’t think that Rudy or Meredith appear on that video. I’m not sure I follow some of his other logic though.

I'll take a look and see if I can understand it; but not tonight. Thanks, DLW, for keeping your eyes peeled.
Skep

Damian said:

You didn't ban Minatour when she did the same...

I remember this from many months ago. Even though I'm a new poster, I am a longtime reader from the first Haloscan. Steve Huff rarely steps in, but as I recall, posting private PM's is a real thorn in his side. Personally, I wish he had been contacted a little while ago, when things started denegrating on the board. Maybe this unfortunate situation could have been avoided.

This board is for finding the truth of what happened to Meredith. It's too bad that it is in great danger of being shut down during this critical time, due to something totally unrelated to the case.

Thanks for all the brilliant posts I've so enjoyed reading all these months, and I wish everyone the very best. Hopefully, Skep and Michael can find a new forum for us before this one goes dark. Or, we can all head over to Pete's place!

Tara wrote:

This board is for finding the truth of what happened to Meredith. It's too bad that it is in great danger of being shut down during this critical time, due to something totally unrelated to the case.

Thanks for all the brilliant posts I've so enjoyed reading all these months, and I wish everyone the very best. Hopefully, Skep and Michael can find a new forum for us before this one goes dark. Or, we can all head over to Pete's place!

I guess it is a question of how much time is needed to set something else up for people who want to continue to post about this case. I can ask Steve if he would be willing to wait that long before pulling the plug.

I think there may be a way to accommodate people who would like to continue. Thanks to everyone, posters and lurkers (I had no idea how many of you were out there), for everything you bring here. Please contact me by PM in the next couple of days if you wish to be kept in the loop and informed of any continuation of some version of this board elsewhere. The goal is a seamless transition, but there could be bumps. At the end of the week of closure, it will be up to Steve Huff to decide what to do.

I apologize in advance to any innocent bystanders who have been or will be inconvenienced in the process.

I'll let everyone know tomorrow how much time is left before the board shuts down for at least a week and possibly permanently.

Again, I hope that everyone who wants to continue will be able to. Please just keep posting about this case until further notice.

Skep/Michael,

I would like to be kept in the loop.

You know, I can understand the anger over the pm, but the bottom line is, everything you send over the internet is apt to be posted elsewhere and the moral of the story is - if you don't want it 'out there' don't type it.

betty

From Perugia Shock:

Studio Aperto aired today some frames of the garage video showing at about 8.31 a guy going out of the garage and at 8.41 a 'white spot' going towards the house.
Someone interpreted the guy as Rudy and the white spot as Meredith. Someone else even 'saw' the white spot going out of a car... It would be nice for Rudy this to be true and to have another partial confirmation to his version. Guede, indeed, always said to have been waiting for Meredith around the house for a while.
But the two figures are totally unrecognizable. The time doesn't really match because according to the reconstruction made with Sophie and Robyn, Meredith should have left via del Roscetto and via del Lupo slightly before 9 pm for arriving home slightly after 9 pm. But they can be wrong of almost half an hour. Maybe even apple pie can induce memory problems....


If what Frank says about the times is correct then I can only go along with what he says.

Meredith arriving home at 8:41 seems a little to early even for me.

The rest of his post states what I have been arguing on and off for weeks. If Kokomani is taken out of the loop there is absolutely no evidence that Rudy Guede conspired with the other two to murder Meredith. There is no evidence to prove his guilt beyond reasonable doubt. The murder weapon isn't his his. He took no part in the crime scene staging. The evidence as it exists only serves to confirm Rudy's story.

mylady007 wrote:Skep/Michael,

I would like to be kept in the loop.

You know, I can understand the anger over the pm, but the bottom line is, everything you send over the internet is apt to be posted elsewhere and the moral of the story is - if you don't want it 'out there' don't type it.

betty

[font=Comic Sans MS]Hi Betty

Not to worry, we'll certainly make sure we keep you informed.

It is certainly true that what we put online, or even just into our computers , may not be as secure as we think or hope and it is very good advice that people bear this in mind.

However, within a community there has to be some basis of 'trust'. Unfortunately, the nature of an online community means that certain things may 'have' to be shared with other individual/s, sometimes there isn't a choice, that are of a personal or sensitive nature and must in such cases be shared privately. Therefore, in cases where such trust is breached it can cause a great deal of damage, intentionally or not. 'Trust' as a vulnerable institution must be protected with a Golden and cardinal rule. Therefore, whilst I share and endorse your general warning about putting sensitive information online, at the same time, in some cases users also have to trust others and it would be a great shame if it were to become the case if that could no longer be.[/font]

For Kokomani to be believed there needs to be IMO some sort of collaborating evidence. Did the people involved with the truck/car breakdown see the Albanian? I am just not comfortable with a witness that decides to come forward so late in the game. If there is evidence Raffaele's family tried to bribe Rudy, well then that is significant to me. Did Kokomani describe something only LE knows and hence confirmation that he was present that night at that time?

It will be a downright shame if Kokomani was there and he EMBELLISHED the story to somehow include Rudy when in reality Rudy was long gone from the scene. What reason would Kokomani make up an interaction with Rudy and include comments Rudy made about Amanda and Raffaele? The whole knife for the birthday cake story seems fairly creative to be made up? If you lie about a part of your story then people have a right not to believe ANY of it. I hope he didn't add Rudy into the post crime scene mix for personal reasons because it will destroy his credibility as a witness. I hope he did not lie.

Guy's please don't shut the board down! You all worked so hard in finding the truth and justice for Meredith - IMO this is the only board who seeks the truth and fights for it with proper reasoning and understanding of what happened, (weather it be with constructive scenarios, arguments, PowerPoint's, photo's of locations relevant to the case when visited Peruga...i could go on and on)
This board has stood together in their belief, especially when being attacked by people of the Knox clan.
Cant we make up? Let it get back to how it was, stubbornness and pride aside, for Meredith's sake we've come to far to stop and have a been (IMO) a reliable source in searching the the TRUTH and telling people the real facts as we know it, unlike the lies and total spin on other boards in web world.




p.s Congratualtions Love Wolf

This post is boring and OT.

Skep wrote:Trust is the foundation of this kind of forum. It can't work otherwise.

I stopped posting a while ago for various reasons, one of which was because I thought we’d lost the trust.
Despite the fact that Skep and FP have spent many words, both in public and private, on the new site, I’m still in the dark. When certain members here, myself included, received a pm from FP about the site, I was a little confused. When I went to the site and saw my moniker there in the ‘Members List’, I was even more confused. I asked FP to take it down and I appreciated him doing that. (Sorry if my post about this seemed curt. There was no anger in that, I just wanted this mistake to be rectified.) Upon being given the address(es) of the site, we, the chosen few, had access to a post by Skep asking us, if we ‘would be so kind’, to transfer some of our best posts to FP’s site. At the time, I couldn’t understand any of this but since we had been promised a pm from Skep with further ‘guidance’, I waited. At this point, there were a few things which didn’t sit right with me. I didn’t like the fact that only a few people were in the loop. I thought that this went agaisnt the group ethos that had been created here. I also didn’t like the fact that others were deciding things on behalf of everybody. We were told that the new site was to run in tandem with the MB. We were told that ‘many posters’ were in favour. We were told that TC was low down in google search. ‘Fair enough’, I thought, ‘but let’s speak about it on the board.’ People who brought up any queries were shot down immediately.
Talk of a move has been around for ages and not knowing much about blogs I just assumed that it would be announced and we would all head someplace else, much like we did from halo to here. I wouldn’t have had a problem with that.
Soon after this, I read three posts on the MB which left me with no doubt whatsoever that a move was planned. Two of these posts were deleted. Despite this, Skep and FP continued to say that the two sites were meant to run in tandem. This, for me, was quite simply untrue. It was/is clear that the intention was to move us to Pete’s site. Clearly, everyone is free to set up whatever sites they like, I don’t have a problem with that. What annoyed me was the fact that only a few people were ‘informed’ about the new site and the rest were misled, in my opinion. Why didn’t they just say, ‘Hey guys, TC doesn’t show up on google so we’re thinking of moving to FP’s site? What do you think?’ Why all the secret messages with instructions to the chosen few? Why all the confusion over the real intentions? Why the constant ‘reassurances’ that it was to compliment this site? Both Skep and FP’s intentions may well be good but the way they dealt with it all inevitably raised questions about exactly what was going on and why. I’m not angry with either of them. There is no rancour in my words. I just want to explain why I think they dealt with this thing badly. I think they showed a lack of respect to the posters here who deserved to be kept informed of their plans.
I think this lack of respect explains other things that have been going on here recently. People have been accused of being ‘bored’, of looking for ‘spats’, of going agaisnt the wishes of ‘90%’ of the posters, of being selfish, of disrespecting Meredith etc. I connect these accusations with other things. We never used to be sent secret messages with ‘instructions’ and ‘guidance’, we never used to be reprimanded, reproached, told to apologise and generally treated like children. It’s cause and effect and trying to blame the posters for all this is myopic and unfair. So before anyone lays any more accusations at my or anyone else’s door, I’d ask them to pause for thought.
I think some of us, myself included, sometimes get a bit wrapped up in this weird blogosphere; we take things a little too seriously. It’s good to take a few steps back now and again, as others have said, to get things back into perspective. If this post seems over the top then I apologise. I just wanted to get it off my chest, explain the changes I have seen over recent months. I know it’s boring and OT but I wanted the good people with whom I’ve exchanged info/ideas here with to know why I’m no longer comfortable posting.
I’m not angry with Skep or FP. I just think they could have dealt with things differently. It would have been better.

Damian,

I can only go along with what you say.

But, I don't blame Skep for the disintigration of TC. I could see it coming weeks ago and she's been battered enough over the last few days. Suffice to say, I intend to put my "private thoughts about how it happened" in a PM to her.

Signora Nara lives in apartment number 11 (my numbering), closer to the iron stairs than I previously thought. (Thanks Tara for the video link)

I watched the video with Nara and the Chicago private dick/novelist.
It was pathetic. Nara's window is an old wooden framed window in such a bad state of repair with plaster missing and literally dropping off it.
The test carried out by the man from Chicago was done from a different apartment, higher up and with a very modern double glazed window.
To those who may not know, double glazing offers far superior sound insulation than normal single paned glass, let alone one that is near enough hanging off the wall.
I was amazed at the difference in sound when I had my house double glazed years ago, in fact it was quite unnerving as we couldn't get used to how quiet it was.
So Chicago man - not even a good try.

indie wrote:For Kokomani to be believed there needs to be IMO some sort of collaborating evidence. Did the people involved with the truck/car breakdown see the Albanian?.

Indie,

One of the most obvious questions to ask them is "was it raining during that period".

Their identity is known.

Things could go dark in a hurry. The plug could be pulled here by Steve at any time, as Machine and others have noted with concern.

Then this board and the PM system will both be gone for a week, and just possibly gone permanently.

I sympathize a lot with Steve. He is hosting a board which he does not really have much time for, and which might now and then embarrass the other parts of his operation. I could see that week with the lights out perhaps becoming rather permanent.

I awake now to find several personal messages from the community, Skep included, asking me to say something about the availability of the TJMK board in such an emergency.

Okay. Here is its status.

(1) This is the TJMK board address. You might bookmark that if you think you could have further interest.

(2) It was set up purely for emergencies like this one. Setting up took less than an hour. There is no link to the board for now on the front pages of TJMK, although if it does need to be swung into action, that link is only about 5 minutes work to create. Readers' comments can go below the blog posts (as now) or they can go straight on to the chat board; your choice.

(3) The board is fast, ad-free, easy to manage, intuitive to post on, and totally under our own editorial control. Down the bottom of the page is a device to change the look of the skin. It can be customized in many ways.

(4) All of the forum areas can individually be made fully visible to anyone, or just to those registered (members), or just to those who want to post on TJMK (main posters). There is an "invisible" posters' area running right now, but not operational. (My own experience of for-your-eyes-only areas is a good one; it is calming to chat privately and can lead into some posting strategies and a sense of real community.)

(5) The board has a PM system like this one for members, and also a group email system for the editor or moderators and technical support to email any desired group. Use of that requires we be given real email addresses of course. Those registered can opt out of getting these emails

(6) We have the 20 or so most prolific commenters here provisionally registered already (they all got a PM with a temporary password) in the hope that they might wish to post on the blog part of TJMK. Skep and Tara have posted so far. Others have things in the works. The blog area is not yet fully loaded with all the static material we have; when it is, we propagate the site, which will suddenly make the site rather well known in a hurry.

(7) I had created some chat areas on the board reflecting the different pages of TJMK (Front Page, Truth Watcher) but hid them as I did not want anyone freaking out that the TJMK board would become operational and run in competition to this one (never our intention).

(8] The software (ExpressionEngine) and hoster (Crystaltech in Phoenix Arizona) are both as stable and professional as you are likely to get. The EE company in Oregon issues several software upgrades each year. Hoster technical support is almost unbelievably fast; most problems are fixed within 20 minutes.

(9) The site comes with a superb email system of its own, if anyone wants a free truejustice email address. It has the best anti-spam arrangements at server level available anywhere. We have two email addresses already created: editor (at) truejustice (dot) org and administrator (at) truejustice (dot) org.

(10) I paid for hoster space for a year, the url, and the software for the blog and the board. Total cost was maybe $200 which is about 1/10th of what it cost me to visit Perugia so no biggie. I offer to pay annual renewals forever, or to go along with other ways of paying for it. I have one other public blog and several for business and family. I really dont want to see ad revenue, and anyway this one is for Meredith and her family, not us. I have long wanted to create a memorial fund for Meredith, to help her family and other trusting, bright girls like her.

If this board is of general interest or becomes the one alternative we have, then anyone not registered can register via the Register Device on the front pages of TJMK and they can then chat on the board or (if they are a poster) post on the blog immediately.

Chatting about this possibility might happen here on the board or its PM system (if they stay up long enough) or over there on the TJMK board as soon as you register or activate the provisional registration.

As you wish.

Pete

Kermit wrote:Signora Nara lives in apartment number 11 (my numbering), closer to the iron stairs than I previously thought. (Thanks Tara for the video link)

Kermit,

I first noticed the word "saw" in an interview with Biscotti when he had his media blitz a couple of weeks ago.

But it wasn't obvious from his statement "what she saw" and I still don't know.

Pete,


You can count me out.

I won't be contributing to TJMK. As you can probably see, I've never logged in. I don't trust you with my IP and my identity being linked to posts here or earlier on Halo.

Could you please de-register me.

For reasons I'm not prepared to say, I think you and one or two others engineered a situation here over the last two or three months to create the situation which has arisen. But I do think Skep was unwittingly involved and I don't include her in that number.

I should add that my 40 year career in IT and another interest I have been involved in has made me as sharp as they come in recognising infiltration methods. Of course I can't prove anything.

Kermit wrote:Signora Nara lives in apartment number 11 (my numbering), closer to the iron stairs than I previously thought. (Thanks Tara for the video link

Kermit:

Ha ha! Thanks for the challenge! I make it 16 and I'll put up a bunch of shots on TJMK today to argue my case.

Apartment 11 has a balcony, for sure, but it also has several problems which you can see in good close-up shots of the buildings.

1) The windows are all wrong. The windows of 11 are two huge areas of glass with a lattice-work of iron frames. Check out the windows in the video, and you will see that they are rather small, with a simple cross-shaped frame.

2) Number 11 does not seem to line up correctly with the lights down there on the parking building.

3) The angle of the house would probably be more extreme from 11, meaning you would be looking more at the east end of the house.

Till later then.

Michael and I are working on a board solution and will keep you posted. Brian, I am not unwittingly involved in anything. Just trying to keep things afloat.
More later. Details on when and if the plug will be pulled. It isn't too late to make that apology to the board.

Brian S. wrote:Pete,


You can count me out.

I won't be contributing to TJMK. As you can probably see, I've never logged in. I don't trust you with my IP and my identity being linked to posts here or earlier on Halo.

Could you please de-register me.

For reasons I'm not prepared to say, I think you and one or two others engineered a situation here over the last two or three months to create the situation which has arisen. But I do think Skep was unwittingly involved and I don't include her in that number.

I should add that my 40 year career in IT and another interest I have been involved in has made me as sharp as they come in recognising infiltration methods. Of course I can't prove anything.

Though I am classified as an "out of looper" I concur with this post. For Brian it may be years of work experience but for me I am basing this opinion on good ol' fashioned mother's intuition. I prefer to just simply read and talk about the case without all these dramatics.

Damian what does MB stand for in your post?

Fast Pete wrote:I dont undertand the talk about infiltration. Perhaps you could tell us all a bit more about that?

Brian:

You have thrown out some pretty ugly charges, in response to a well-meaning offer I was asked to make.

How about explaining this innuendo, at least?

*******

Hey! My original response to Brian has disappeared! Probably my fault.

In the original, I offered Brian sole charge of the technical side of TJMK if it is needed, as he says he is in IT. Just fine with me.

If IP addresses appear anywhere via the software, I have never seen them. I have trouble being concerned about such things.

Oh and I blog under my own name. Here: http://galaxyrising.com/ee/index.php What's your own real name, Brian?!

For what it's worth, I wasn't asked to join in any reindeer games either. No skin off my nose...(oh, I'm killing myself over here)

ANYWAY, can I apologize and make sure the board doesn't shut down? Does my *sorry* count for anything at all?

Here's what I thought, perhaps mistakenly, was happening. (Due to me being away from the board so long for busy season or due to sloppy reading, you be the judge, jury or best friend forever)

This board was probably never going anywhere. (by this I mean, it was staying right here. Or at least, I for one was wishing on a star for that)

This place that was created by a *new* poster was going to be some kind of cry for justice for Meredith Kercher to sort of combat the Knox Fan Club site that usually appears first when one googles the name of Meredith Kercher.

I wasn't aware that anything was going on *behind the scenes*. I was never asked to contribute anything, quite possibly because I have very little to give, save my own personal wish and hope that justice be served in this case.

I looked at the link for FP's site. It seems nice and thoughtful and dedicated to Meredith Kercher, unlike a certain blog that states something along those lines at the top of it and yet lately contains pleas for the *co-victim*. Repulsive. I might check that site out from time to time, but you know what? I would rather stay right here. Actually, if I had my 'druthers, I wish we were still on haloscan, but then I'm a creature of comfort and that's where I started.

I hope the board doesn't close down for a week or longer or forever, because that would really be a shame after all the work EVERYONE here has done. Let's smooch and make up. Let's not let the guilty destroy Meredith yet again.

And Soozie, thanks for not posting that PM I sent you about me, the jello and the sweaty Armenian weightlifter.
Oops...

Come on! Let's put the FUN back in dysfunctional, family!

xoxoxoxo

skeptical bystander wrote:Michael and I are working on a board solution and will keep you posted. Brian, I am not unwittingly involved in anything. Just trying to keep things afloat.
More later. Details on when and if the plug will be pulled. It isn't too late to make that apology to the board.

I'm glad to hear that Skep and I hope it is connected to a mirror created by Michael on Free Forums. I would also appreciate it if you and Michael remained the sole administrators.

Corrina wrote:I looked at the link for FP's site. It seems nice and thoughtful and dedicated to Meredith Kercher, unlike a certain blog that states something along those lines at the top of it and yet lately contains pleas for the *co-victim*. Repulsive.

Thanks Corrina. Nice. I've had various PMs that are similar, actually all from women here on the site.

Three things this summer turned me into an activist, of sorts.

1) The trip to Perugia, which very deeply affected me in ways I never ever expected.

2) The fact that we had half a dozen Swiss girls staying here for the summer, all of them about Meredith's age. (We have no kids.)

3) The aggressive ferocity of the defendants' campaign, which seemed to be winning over more and more media, and which still has no strong counterbalance to it.

Fast Pete wrote:

Brian S. wrote:Pete,


You can count me out.

I won't be contributing to TJMK. As you can probably see, I've never logged in. I don't trust you with my IP and my identity being linked to posts here or earlier on Halo.

Could you please de-register me.

For reasons I'm not prepared to say, I think you and one or two others engineered a situation here over the last two or three months to create the situation which has arisen. But I do think Skep was unwittingly involved and I don't include her in that number.

I should add that my 40 year career in IT and another interest I have been involved in has made me as sharp as they come in recognising infiltration methods. Of course I can't prove anything.

Wow! Seems you misread almost everything, Brian.

If you are in IT then I have no problem with you running the board technically. All on your own. I dont even know how to see the IPs if that is possible.

The only one I have ever chatted with behind the scenes here was Skep, and the blog was initially simply a vehicle for the photos of Perugia. I added to it back in the Wilkes days after chatting with Skep, who feared this board might fail, but did not do much pushing of it.

I dont undertand the talk about infiltration. Perhaps you could tell us all a bit more about that?

Pete,

I have absolutely no interest in admining for reasons I suspect Skep has come to understand.

My IT life was spent as a troubleshooter for a major computer supplier before server/network/PC's took over in the early nineties. I then set up my own business installing networks. Now I am retired from all that.

Pete,

I can't KNOW what I say is true and others are free to believe as they wish.

Suffice to say infiltration usually relies on creating street cred before attempting to achieve the desired result. Pics from Perugia did just that. TC was bought down by blog wars. I can think of one or two who have been in the forefront of that and I don't include TLC, Soozie or rob in their number. They've always been the way they are, but some came here and bought the blog war with them when they came.

You could be innocent of all I say, but I'm not prepared to take that risk.

CMellas attempted to get in via Steve Huff amid talk of slander. I trust Steve because of his history. When CMellas said there were other ways to achieve his aim everyone assumed he meant a DOS attack. But that was never a goer because it would affect the whole server setup of Free Forums and they wouldn't like that.

Outside of my career in IT the other thing I have experienced in the last five years is the attentions of major international corporates, American lawyers, PR companies and the like intent on closing a site down. You won't believe how vicious that became or the methods they attempted. The site survived and is now out of their control. Last I looked it was just inside the top 1000 busiest sites in the world, just ahead of Microsoft France.

This is nothing like that but CMellas has an ax to grind and I'm wary.

Brian S. wrote:Damian,

I can only go along with what you say.

But, I don't blame Skep for the disintigration of TC. I could see it coming weeks ago and she's been battered enough over the last few days. Suffice to say, I intend to put my "private thoughts about how it happened" in a PM to her.

Thanks for your post Brian. I'd just like to add to mine that I didn't mean to attack Skep even if that in expressing myself it may seem that I did. I've spent a long time at TC with Skep and have learnt alot from her and all the other good, bright people here.

Skep, I'm not angry with you and I was never agaisnt the idea of a new site per se. It was the way it was dealt with that I didn't like and the way we were treated as a consequence. As Brian alludes to however, I have no idea how much say you had in all this. I never wanted to add to all the crap you've had to put up with from the defenders of AK.

Hi Indie, MB stands for Message Board.

Pete,

I went to GalaxyRising weeks ago and I must say you do take nice pics. I also know you are honest about your career as an investor because I've checked out that on blogs.

But I prefer to remain anonymous. I don't like lawyers with clients who may have costs to recoup.

EDIT:

Pete, it is entirely possible I have all this wrong and I can't make others choices for them. If I have I apologise but I still won't be posting.

If the blog had happened in the light of everyone on the board and those who posted regularly here hadn't had their existing names and invented passwords added by default and then PM'd to them here, I may have taken a different view.

But the Brian S. who has posted here and on Halo would have been immediately identifiable as soon as they logged in using that password.

This is nothing like that but CMellas has an ax to grind and I'm wary.[/quote]


Divide and conquer. Sometimes I'm a little slow. Between you writing the line above, Brian, and Indie and her good old motherly intuition, I'm recalling a twinge of discomfort I felt a long time ago.

I hope this board stays up. I really do. Because I don't know where else I trust to find out reliable information. I'm going to change my profile quick so my email address is up and hope and wish-upon-a-star that some folks keep in touch if this board is destroyed.

For Meredith

damian wrote:Why all the secret messages with instructions to the chosen few?

Damian, there were very few messages and none of them secret. The was no chosen few.

The TJMK site began life for posting some shots, and it added a few possibilities in the light of Wilkes bring this one to a grinding halt. Simple stuff.

Blogging actually is pretty simple: (1) You create a space and hand someone the keys, (2) they post if and when they want to, (3) people come read if they want to.

Skep works about 30 hours a day trying to keep this board on an even keel. I run another blog, have two professions, travel, do the NYC cultural scene. Neither of us could find enough time to do various rounds of PMing and I am not quite sure what there even was to convey.

You could have posted anything you wanted in the past several weeks. Nothing to stop you. No downside that I can see.

Just a rebalancing of the playing field in favor of Meredith. Really such a bad thing?

Hey everyone. It seems clear that this board will shut down for a week. I will ask Steve to give me a date and a time so that everyone can organize themselves as they wish.

In order to assuage any fears, real or imagined, about infiltration, ulterior motives and so on, I propose that the new board be one that Michael set up awhile back to deal with emergency situations. Personally, I have no problem with Fast Pete's board proposal, and our private exchanges about the case and its media coverage have been interesting and open-ended. I agree with Corinna's assessment, and she is no patsy.

Damian, I know you mean well but I don't know what you mean by the way things were dealt with regarding Pete's new blog. Pete had an idea and he ran with it. Once in awhile he asked what I thought. There was no attempt to move away from here or put an end to the board. I think I made that clear to Pete at the start. Didn't I Pete?

Here's how I saw and still see it: we are not going to affect the outcome of this case, and that is as it should be. We can, however, have an impact on public perception of this case and one of the most important things we can do is set the record straight when things get reported wrong and keep those with a public voice honest. A high-quality blog is a perfect way to do that. It does not compete with a board in any way. I am guessing Pete approached some people but not others (?) and that this created jealousy, fear, paranoia, etc. I say I am guessing because I don't know. I can only guess by reading between the lines and seeing some changes in posting behavior and focus. If you look at this thread, you will see how many times I addressed the issue publicly, saying the same thing over and over. Why publicly? In the interest of transparency, making sure everyone got the same information, and MAINLY because only one person approached me privately to ask what the deal was. I answered that person in the same way as I addressed the board because there was nothing else to say.

I believe that a small number of posters got the wrong idea, for reasons I have not been privy to, and would simply not let go of it. This is often what happens with unchecked rumors. Things take on a life of their own that has little basis in reality, are never addressed in a straightforward way (anyone can PM or email me or Michael at any time with concerns), and feed resentment based on misinformation.

A new board will be set up. The rules will be the same ones and, in case there is a single person out there who still doesn't get it, the cardinal one will be that no PMs or private emails will ever be published without the author's consent. Steve said it: it is an asshole, ugly thing to do no matter what your reasons are. Maybe to save a baby from a burning building, but other than that...

The second cardinal rule will be that any grievances about the board or how it is run will have to be addressed either privately. Any violations of this rule will just be deleted, pure and simple. The set of rules that govern this board were posted in the first days of the board's existence. They are pretty much based on common sense and common decency. One of them has to do with staying on topic and not disrupting the main conversation with your grievances about another poster or moderator or whatever. Had this rule been respected by everyone, we would not be closing this board for a week and possibly for good.

To sign up for the new board, you have to agree to adhere to these principles. They will be spelled out, but let's not make too big a deal out of it. Why focus on the 5% that create problems and not the 95% that just want to post and/or lurk passionately but respectfully.

A few people have asked me why Steve is "punishing the whole board" because of one person's gaffe. I think the answer is spelled out in his post from yesterday if you read it attentively. For your information, I sent Steve a one-paragraph email yesterday telling him that a PM had been published without the permission of the author; I did not delve into the specifics (there was no then she said, then I said then so and so weighed in). I said that I might need to remove myself as co-moderator and co-administrator. Steve's response was immediate. He did not beg me to stay or any of that bullshit. He said if it were up to him, the board would be shut down immediately and for good. I asked him to consider a warning at least and you all saw his reply to that. It was published on the board and I received a link to it; I read it at the same time you all did. Steve has a lot of experience with boards and has moved on to other things because of the downside. One of the big downsides is that a small group, sometimes just one person, can mess things up for everyone. I guess he wanted to drive that point home.

In recent days, the moderators/administrators have been accused of making money here by getting a cut of advertising revenues. This is false. I personally would never accept any such scheme with respect to this case or any other tragedy and neither would Michael. People who seek to take profit from human tragedy are the worst sort of scum in my book. Steve Huff is a respected truce crime writer who is finally making a little money for his writing. He deserves it. A lot of the cases he has covered lately relate to missing persons, some of whom have been found alive. He has been part of that effort.

The person who made this accusation (rob) first excoriated me for not forcing people not to post elsewhere (because by doing so they were feeding the machine), then told one and all that no mods were needed as he left the board. I bear absolutely no ill will toward rob, but I think he acted irresponsibly. But it doesn't matter. I hope he comes back!

The rest of it -- the nonsense about Charlie being banned because of one guy, the mods causing all the trouble, and questions months later about the board rules and about why Minotaur did not get banned for posting a PM, etc. -- is just a bunch of garbage and a huge bore for the 95%. I should have contacted Steve Huff sooner and spared everyone this nonsense. I'm sorry, but that's how I see it. Self-indulgent and selfish. On the new board, I propose that all such comments simply be deleted -- no reason given, it should be obvious -- and that repeat offenders be banned without appeal. Not a minute should be wasted on them.

So before you sign up for any new board, please think about why you personally are in this. Is it because you believe that justice for Meredith Kercher is the only thing that matters, or is it because, as Steve said, you just like to hang out in the playground? If it is the latter, I suggest you find a new playground and let others get on with their discussion.

I don't know how the new board will function in terms of moderation and so on. Michael will explain all that. I don't know or care if I will play any role in moderation. In saying that, I don't mean to imply that I don't take the role seriously. I only mean that those who think I'm on some sort of power or ego trip have it all wrong. I am happy to participate in the discussion and will have the utmost respect for whoever is the moderator. It truly is a thankless job. the only consolation is the contact with some very fine individuals. I had no idea until yesterday that there were so many active lurkers who have never posted. They all want a board to continue, and they are all welcome to join in the discussion about what happened to Meredith Kercher and why any time.

As for Fast Pete's blog, I agree with Corinna and with Tara, who mentioned the satisfaction of writing on a specific topic. I plan to continue submitting posts. People who have qualms about it or about Fast Pete or whatever are of course free to entertain them and stay. But I think they're missing out on something. I would just ask that all of you look at the contribution Pete has made to the discussion and see what that contribution is worth. Forget about what so and so has told you about Pete: Pete played no role in the implosion of this board. If it reopens after a week -- which I doubt -- it will be without certain elements. This would allow us to assess the sources of trouble. If it does open, there will be a new rule: all posts about the board, other posters, the moderators, etc. that are off-topic and counterproductive will be deleted. Anyone who comes back agrees to that. If you all want new moderators in that case, go for it.

Michael will post about the new board and I'll get back with more details about the shutdown here. It won't be sudden and without warning. I suggest that people just keep posting about recent case developments.

Skep (co-moderator and co-adminstrator, but not an enabler)

Don't it always seem to go
You don't know what you got till its gone
Paved Paradise, put up a parking lot


For such a social creature, mankind is so unable to function in social settings.

We all came together for various reasons, but I am assuming (because it is why I came here, and I always assume people want what I want) we came here out of outrage over another potential OJ scenario.

And yet for petty 'what about me' reasons we are going to piss it all away. Lack of trust, lack of feeling respected, perhaps lack of common cause.

This group is a facinating collaboration of talent and observation. Pretty cool stuff gets talked about here.

But lets all just piss it away, because we are all too proud to come together and work together.


Funnycat is not that bad
Maybe Oceania is a reasonable person, after all her son was there in that town
I can get used to reading the constant dribble from Charlie
C Mellas was right
Goofy just won

I guess I can get used to the corn cobb, and after some time my eyes will adjust to the shit that he will rubbing my eyes in.

Fast Pete wrote:
Damian, there were very few messages and none of them secret. The was no chosen few.

What I meant was this. I received a pm from you, as did a few other posters. Most posters here did not. In your pm, you gave the address to your site. Once there, we had access to a post from Skep with further instructions. The majority of the posters here didn't see and weren't aware of these things. This is what I meant when I said secret messages for the chosen few.

Fast Pete wrote:The TJMK site began life for posting some shots, and it added a few possibilities in the light of Wilkes bring this one to a grinding halt. Simple stuff.

I don't follow the second part of this sentence. What's Charlie got to do with your site? This strikes me as yet another red herring.

Fast Pete wrote: Neither of us could find enough time to do various rounds of PMing and I am not quite sure what there even was to convey.

Perhaps you could have conveyed, on the board, to everybody, what your real intentions were/are. Call me old fashioned. These real intentions have slipped out and you were one of the people to let them slip. As I said in my post, you wanted us all to move to your site. If you'd been up front about it, told everybody here what the plan was, I might've been posting about the case right now on your site. Maybe we all would have been. The reason we are not is because you went agaisnt the group ethic here and you were not straight with us about your intentions. These two things pissed me and others off.

Fast Pete wrote:
You could have posted anything you wanted in the past several weeks. Nothing to stop you. No downside that I can see.

Really such a bad thing?

Maybe not Pete, and maybe your intentions are good. But your secret messages to the chosen few along with 'mispeaking' about you intentions were not conducive to creating trust.

Corrina wrote:For what it's worth, I wasn't asked to join in any reindeer games either. No skin off my nose...(oh, I'm killing myself over here)

ANYWAY, can I apologize and make sure the board doesn't shut down? Does my *sorry* count for anything at all?

Here's what I thought, perhaps mistakenly, was happening. (Due to me being away from the board so long for busy season or due to sloppy reading, you be the judge, jury or best friend forever)

This board was probably never going anywhere. (by this I mean, it was staying right here. Or at least, I for one was wishing on a star for that)

This place that was created by a *new* poster was going to be some kind of cry for justice for Meredith Kercher to sort of combat the Knox Fan Club site that usually appears first when one googles the name of Meredith Kercher.

I wasn't aware that anything was going on *behind the scenes*. I was never asked to contribute anything, quite possibly because I have very little to give, save my own personal wish and hope that justice be served in this case.

I looked at the link for FP's site. It seems nice and thoughtful and dedicated to Meredith Kercher, unlike a certain blog that states something along those lines at the top of it and yet lately contains pleas for the *co-victim*. Repulsive. I might check that site out from time to time, but you know what? I would rather stay right here. Actually, if I had my 'druthers, I wish we were still on haloscan, but then I'm a creature of comfort and that's where I started.

I hope the board doesn't close down for a week or longer or forever, because that would really be a shame after all the work EVERYONE here has done. Let's smooch and make up. Let's not let the guilty destroy Meredith yet again.

And Soozie, thanks for not posting that PM I sent you about me, the jello and the sweaty Armenian weightlifter.
Oops...

Come on! Let's put the FUN back in dysfunctional, family!

xoxoxoxo

It seems to me that some people are giving too much importance to things that after all are trivial when compared to the tragedy that happened in Perugia almost one year ago, which is my motivation-and I believe everybody else- to be here: to give a contribution to keep the memory of Meredith alive in everybody's hearts -in order for the world not to forget WHO is the victim of this heinous crime.

I agree with Corrina that FP's site seems truly dedicated to Meredith Kercher and it's sensitive and thoughtful. I may be naive or plain stupid, but honestly I can't see any congoing conspiracy to shut down this board in favor of FP website. I think the two sites have very good reasons to exist in parallel.But as it often happens in life, things evolve and change-at times not quite in the direction we 'd like-, but as far as I am concerned if this board close down I will be happy to have the opportunity to keep giving my contribute to Meredith's cause elsewhere. This is what matters to me, more than any personal likes of dislikes of other fellow posters. And as of now, FP sites seems the best place to keep doing so.

Peace everybody,and
Nicki

edited

P.S. Thanks Brian, for asking people not to beat up on me. It is true, I have had enough.
And Damian, I'm not sure about the would you be so kind part in what you said above. A blog is different from a board, and there was no plan to replace the former with the latter OR decide anything for anyone. Pete was working on his ideas and mentioned that some posters here would make fine bloggers. He mentioned a few names, and I agreed with him. A couple of people had made some really good posts and I did ask one person who sent me a really insightful PM about the media aspect of the case to consider a blog entry for Pete. There was no ulterior motive or anything.

Like everyone else, I sometimes do things with no design. When Pete got his photos up and Kermit began to encounter expiration problems, I suggested they work together to find a place where things could be easily accessed. Kermit and Pete both have technical skills that I don't have and I felt I had no added value there. I don't remember ever saying please don't tell anyone or just tell a few people. I only said if you're going to have a new site and you want to invite people from here to join, it has to be a formal invitation issued to everyone at the same time. And I wanted to wait until there was something to see (a frame), thinking that would give whoever was interested ideas that they could carry to Pete.

So I waited. Obviously, I realized that not everyone would be interested. And from Pete's point of view, I understood that not everyone would be a good candidate for providing site content. That's would be his call. My guess from what he has said is that he had been looking at the work here and liked some of what he saw. He saw some writing talent. Maybe he overlooked some people. I don't know. I don't know who all was on his mind. I don't know who he contacted. In fact, I considered it none of my business to the extent that my brief is to moderate and administer this board, not a blog. However, I think Pete's idea is terrific and I have told him so. He can count me in on his project.

There was balance to be struck between informing everyone publicly at the same time, having something to inform them about, and not standing in the way of one individual's creative effort. That's all.

I would never stand in the way of people's side projects, and my intention was never to keep anyone out of any loop. Several months back, Kermit and May were working on a secret project, and I got wind of it. They asked me to keep it secret. They wanted to surprise people. Was I wrong to say, okay, go for it? Was I wrong not to tell anyone?

In retrospect, I agree Damian that some things should have been done differently. I say this because a few noses are apparently way out of joint. At the same time, I believe that if somebody is really confused they should seek clarification, privately or publicly. The public queries were answered. I don't know what deletions you are talking about. So few posts have been deleted. You did ask to be removed from Pete's registration list (was that it?) and said you were confused. I sent you a PM asking if I could be of any help. You didn't reply. I took that as a no. There are enough things to think about without having to guess at at cater to people's feelings. I'm not out to trample on anyone, but adults need to act like adults. OTHERWISE ITS a festering grudge situation. It lingers and people can no longer see straight.
So I am sorry to have contributed to it, but it was not because of some evil or hidden intention.

Is Mercury retrograde or something? I can't seem to make myself make sense on this board or in the real world either today...

I'm trying for diplomacy and perhaps failing miserably.

I want to stay here. Right here. FP, your site looks nice and I might check it out once in a while, but I don't think I wish to be a part of it. And if I'm subpoenaed, I'm just going to say I refuse to acknowledge it. Hey, if it works for Bush and Cheney, et. al. and now the moose killer in Alaska, it's good enough for me! But I digress...

The light bulb came on, just a little too slow. I actually did try to *register* at that site. I have yet to be approved or whatever is to happen next. Again, I never received any PM from FP and don't really care nor do I feel jealous if only certain people did because I know a lot of you have done a lot more than crack stupid jokes like yours truly. I thought it would be like another forum or something. Nope, no access. Now I'm starting to think maybe there is a reason why.

I like it here. I liked haloscan better. I will check out Michael's forum when it's posted or up or whatever you call it. Skep, I love you like a crazy.

Divide and conquer. I don't want to play.

xo

Skep wrote:In order to assuage any fears, real or imagined, about infiltration, ulterior motives and so on, I propose that the new board be one that Michael set up awhile back to deal with emergency situations. Personally, I have no problem with Fast Pete's board proposal.....

And I will happily go along with that solution.

friend of Peltier wrote:Don't it always seem to go
You don't know what you got till its gone
Paved Paradise, put up a parking lot


For such a social creature, mankind is so unable to function in social settings.

We all came together for various reasons, but I am assuming (because it is why I came here, and I always assume people want what I want) we came here out of outrage over another potential OJ scenario.

And yet for petty 'what about me' reasons we are going to piss it all away. Lack of trust, lack of feeling respected, perhaps lack of common cause.

This group is a facinating collaboration of talent and observation. Pretty cool stuff gets talked about here.

But lets all just piss it away, because we are all too proud to come together and work together.


Funnycat is not that bad
Maybe Oceania is a reasonable person, after all her son was there in that town
I can get used to reading the constant dribble from Charlie
C Mellas was right
Goofy just won

I guess I can get used to the corn cobb, and after some time my eyes will adjust to the shit that he will rubbing my eyes in.

Howdy FoP,

Thanks for reminding me of Joni Mitchell's great Court and Spark Album. I'll have to take a listen!

I know of 4 TC Members in the Seattle area. It's a bit unnerving to know that the people you listed above are all right here in close proximity. I think some folks posting here forget that? Shutting this board down sucks, and let's don't forget one other that needs to go on your list above: IW - she referred to this board as "The Dark Place", and that's what it's going to be...she won as well.

Tara

skeptical bystander wrote:There was no attempt to move away from here or put an end to the board. I think I made that clear to Pete at the start. Didn't I Pete?

Yeah. You saw the blog as an empowering device for everyone here, and for leveling the playing field against Team Knox and their pet poodles in the media. Nothing more. Nothing sinister.

I regard boards as systemically unstable. People mean well, but there is a devil in the machine that gets loose in all of them.

Blogs and group blogs rarely see this kind of problem. I think because everyone has a larger audience. All their posts get mulled over and parsed. Everyone gets plenty of attention, plenty of respect, plenty of psychic satisfaction, and plenty of groupies (I wish!!)

skeptical bystander wrote:As for Fast Pete's blog, I agree with Corinna and with Tara, who mentioned the satisfaction of writing on a specific topic. I plan to continue submitting posts. People who have qualms about it or about Fast Pete or whatever are of course free to entertain them and stay. But I think they're missing out on something. I would just ask that all of you look at the contribution Pete has made to the discussion and see what that contribution is worth. Forget about what so and so has told you about Pete: Pete played no role in the implosion of this board.

Ah! I just had to repost that. For, you know, the psychic satisfaction....!!

Foir myself I buy into all that you say above, Skep. It amazes me how you come out with all this before your first cup of coffee over there on the west coast.

You did go to bed, right?!

Burn down the disco
Hang the blessed dj
Because the music that they constantly play
Says nothing to me about my life

Okay, let me know where the next board is headed. Hey! It'll be like Halo Scan Number 3,241,649. Let's just get something up before Friday?

Respectfully,
Lazy Jumpy

I should have taken more advantage of the font color thingy. Rats.

[quote="Jumpy"]Burn down the disco
Hang the blessed dj
Because the music that they constantly play
Says nothing to me about my life


Oh death of a disco dancer
i'd rather not get involved

...so nice to see some Smiths loving going on, Jumpy

Brian S. wrote:
And I will happily go along with that solution.

Me too.

Brian S. wrote:I first noticed the word "saw" in an interview with Biscotti when he had his media blitz a couple of weeks ago. But it wasn't obvious from his statement "what she saw" and I still don't know.

You're right, in the sense that I'm not being fair to Paul the Super PI. Even though we thought he had "privileged" or "unprecedented" (I can't remember the qualifier) access to evidence, when he went through Perugia on his whistle stop to justify his fees, back in the early spring, the word was that Sra. Nara had "heard" what she had heard, and not seen anything.

Since then there has been the odd reference, like Biscotti a couple of weeks ago, and more recently in La Nazione last week, the partial transcript of her declaration to Mignini, where she refers to two persons fleeing (in addition to hearing the agonising scream and then more than one person running on gravel and the iron stairs). I believe from my reading of the transcript that she saw them.

Back on page 65 I posted the Italian transcript and a very poor translation I did (I'm quite sure I mixed up the double and single glazing: her bathroom window in the Italian TG5 interview reproduced by CBS' 48 Hours program appears to have an old single pane window).

Regarding "seeing", as I look back right now at the transcript, I realise that it doesn't include her saying explicitly "I SAW one person do this" altogether in one sentence. She refers to looking out, she refers to the noise of running on gravel, she refers to a person running up the metal stairs (which could possibly be only on the basis of hearing him/her), and she refers to a person running towards Via Bulagaio. She has a clear view of the start of Via Bulagaio, and at that distance I doubt the sound alone would allow her to state that someone was running that way.

Fast Pete wrote:Ha ha! Thanks for the challenge! I make it 16 and I'll put up a bunch of shots on TJMK today to argue my case.

Apartment 11 has a balcony, for sure, but it also has several problems which you can see in good close-up shots of the buildings.

1) The windows are all wrong. The windows of 11 are two huge areas of glass with a lattice-work of iron frames. Check out the windows in the video, and you will see that they are rather small, with a simple cross-shaped frame.

2) Number 11 does not seem to line up correctly with the lights down there on the parking building.

3) The angle of the house would probably be more extreme from 11, meaning you would be looking more at the east end of the house.

Ref. 1) look closely at my collage posted earlier. The upper right image shows that the real "window" of Nara's bathroom only occupies some of the lattice-work iron frames. The others are for decoration, ie. there's no window underneath.

Ref. 2) look at this modified version of the collage. I think the carpark's lamps are exactly in the right place.


Ref. 3) the east end of the house (Laura's bedroom window) is jammed against the Via Sant'Antonio viaduct and is low under the edge of the carpark, basically hidden from Sra. Nara's view. She only sees the cottage's roof.

Corinna wrote:

I like it here. I liked haloscan better. I will check out Michael's forum when it's posted or up or whatever you call it. Skep, I love you like a crazy.

Divide and conquer. I don't want to play.

I hear you. If I have understood correctly, Michael's board is a kind of mirror of this one, so the disruption/change will be minimal. Michael must have a day job or something....where is he? He'll let us all know later on. No worries.

Pete, I'm on my second cup of coffee and I still can't face the day (that's for all you Gordon Lightfoot fans out there).

nicki wrote:Interesting interview to Maresca, from Affari Italiani
http://tinyurl.com/4jjvo8

Will try to provide a translation tomorrow if someone doesn't do it before. Very briefly, Maresca -who has read all of the Scientific police reports- says:
-He believes all three are guilty of murdering Meredith
-It took Meredith about 10 minutes to die so she coud have been saved
-Besides Kokomani, there are other witnesses saying the three knew each other
-The main motive was sexual and the money theft was associated to the crime and not the reason for it

He says he saw Rudy and Amanda in court and it was so clear that they were lying from looking at their faces ( ce l'hanno scritto in faccia)

There also an interview to Biscotti but he is singing the same song: Rudy is innocent, he had sex with the consenting victim, he was in the bathroom for 12 minutes while the other two killed Meredith, and he is asking his client to be acquitted.

Thanks for this, Nicki, and for providing what you were able to while you were able to! Mr. Maresca has said some pretty damning things there although pretty much what he has been saying all along, just a bit more vehemently. Considering what the family of Meredith has lost, I'm willing to take his word. The Kercher Family want the responsible parties brought to justice for murdering their daughter and sister.

I look forward to one of our wonderful and thoughtful translators giving us the rest of this, or Nicki when she has more free time to be our filter. We're blessed, people.

skeptical bystander wrote:I would never stand in the way of people's side projects, and my intention was never to keep anyone out of any loop. Several months back, Kermit and May were working on a secret project, and I got wind of it. They asked me to keep it secret. They wanted to surprise people.
Was I wrong to say, okay, go for it? Was I wrong not to tell anyone?

[font=Georgia]Hello Skep and all,
I just wanted to clarify something about this...

Please don't compare a joint presentation with a 'secret' project. As many know, Kermit and I had separately made presentations on Halo and the MB, and several posters had asked me what I was working on next. Because the presentation to which you refer took a good amount of time, I (alone) mentioned to you in an email that we were still at work, and NOTHING of it's contents. There was absolutely nothing secret about it. I am always working on something! It's just not known to others until I finish. Oh! if the world was sitting waiting for our work it would be a great place...but certainly nothing worthy of 'secret'. Thanks![/font]

skeptical bystander wrote:
(that's for all you Gordon Lightfoot fans out there).

Sometimes I think it's a shame
that I get feeling better when I'm feeling no pain

Right back at you

xo

Michael gave us this link awhile ago which is when I signed up and bookmarked. Here it is:

http://perugiamurderfile.freeforums.org/index.php

Following up on Skep and Damien on who was invited to post on the TJMK blog.

In my experience there's NO good way up front to know who will make a good blogger. The only way to find out is to give them a trial shot, and if they like it and it resonates with a constituency, they are in business.

Tara's first post really blew me away. That is maybe the best first blog post I have seen in my life.

It is very tough to get people to take that first shot, and harder for women - it is often remarked that there are less women bloggers than men bloggers, though women usually make MAGNETIC bloggers once they do begin.

So Skep and I agreed that every single poster here (except late Wilkes) writes well, in an interesting mix of styles, and has insights, and should be given a shot.

I did a quick sort of the membership list by number of posts, and the first 15 or so got the first invitation by that mind-numbing PM system.

Corrina was not around at that point (today she is at 20, and moving up sans Wilkes and Oceania) but I really like her style and her humor, and I suspect she would make a natural blogger and a big draw to any site.

Oh, and some of the best blog posts are just a few lines long. Think about it, all. Try a toe in the water.

Corrina wrote:

Brian S. wrote:
And I will happily go along with that solution.

Me too.

me 3


And thanks Damian for your reply, I thought MB was Mother Board so I wasn't too far off.

Kermit wrote:Ref. 1) look closely at my collage posted earlier. The upper right image shows that the real "window" of Nara's bathroom only occupies some of the lattice-work iron frames. The others are for decoration, ie. there's no window underneath.

Kermit, you genius, you again have me intrigued.

Can you post a link here to that collage you mention? (I'll be back tonight.)

I have maybe 10 shots of apartment 16 and that still looks to me like a very large window, rather than a small one surrounded by a large mock iron and glass effect.

But it may be that this is what it is, a mock front, in an architect's effort to balance the large window east of the balcony.

I always though the balcony on 16 resembled the CBS video. Just those windows, you know?!

By the way, is Nara in the Perugia White Pages?

May wrote:

Please don't compare a joint presentation with a 'secret' project.

If it will make you feel better, fine. But that wasn't the point. The point is, there was no secret project. Pete's blog is his presentation; it is not a joint presentation. I had no input per se. We exchanged ideas privately, as people do and as this forum permits. I have no idea what goes on between other posters and don't need to know. Pete approached me and began talking about his idea. He asked ME if I was interested in being part of it. I did not need anyone's permission -- not even my husband's -- to answer that question.

The rest is just a series of misunderstandings. I am sorry if my using your project to make a point offends you. But I make no distinction between or among projects, collaborations, etc. If people feel left out, angry, cheated, not in the loop, I am soooooooooo sorry, sooo sick of apologizing and clarifying, and sooooooo tired of assuaging these imaginary slights.

You have made your objections to Pete and his blog project clear. That is all you can do. We are all free agents here. Let people make up their own minds. In the meantime, Michael has a board solution and Kermit has some interesting things to say about Sra. Nara.

NICKI,
Your pragmatism is much appreciated. As is your contribution here or anywhere you happen to be. I agree 100% -- make that 1000% -- with what you say.

Now I am stepping in as moderator/administrator: I am done speaking publicly about the genesis of Pete's project. I have apologized for my way of handling it and stated that no harm was meant. If anyone wants to carry on talking to me about my role, please send a PM or an email. It might take me a couple of days to respond. I spent most of yesterday on non-work related issues. Anyone who wants to continue a public discussion on this fascinating topic, please open another thread. Otherwise, drop it. Time to move on. Once again, feel free to volunteer to take over at the helm of the board and steer it as you see fit.

Skep (co-moderator and co-administrator and losing patience, which happens when you have to repeat yourself over and over)

P.S. Maybe it has never occurred to anyone, but the reason you may not have heard from me on the subject of the FP blog is that I didn't have much to say at the time. I didn't really have many details. It was a work in progress -- someone else's work in progress.

When suppertime came, Skep came on deck saying
Fellas, it's too rough to feed ya
At seven PM a Steve Huff then came in, he said
Fellas, it's been good to know ya

The captain wired in he had rumors coming in
And the good site and board was in peril
And later tonight when this board goes out of sight
Came the wreck of the voice for poor Merideth

Pete wrote:

By the way, is Nara in the Perugia White Pages?

I started to look the other day and did not get far. If anyone with more experience in Telecom Italia matters is on board (Damian? Nicki? Middie?), please check.

Thanks for the kind words, FP, but I'm no blogger. I prefer pen to paper, though I did self-publish a book of poetry once...it was cheaper than therapy.

FoP wrote:

And later tonight when this board goes out of sight

Just to clarify: I doubt it will be tonight. Maybe not until next week. More details later.

Fast Pete wrote:

Kermit wrote:Ref. 1) look closely at my collage posted earlier. The upper right image shows that the real "window" of Nara's bathroom only occupies some of the lattice-work iron frames. The others are for decoration, ie. there's no window underneath.

Can you post a link here to that collage you mention? (I'll be back tonight.)

It's from earlier today, my post at: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: Signora Nara's Flat

friend of Peltier wrote:When suppertime came, Skep came on deck saying
Fellas, it's too rough to feed ya
At seven PM a Steve Huff then came in, he said
Fellas, it's been good to know ya

The captain wired in he had rumors coming in
And the good site and board was in peril
And later tonight when this board goes out of sight
Came the wreck of the voice for poor Merideth

Damn, that was good, FOP...I cut my teeth on Gordon Lightfoot and Cat Stevens albums. When I got a little older, I stopped teething and began drooling over Cat Stevens albums (inside photo Teaser and the Firecat)

Now the way I feel is like a robin
Whose babes have flown to come no more
Like a tall oak tree alone and crying
When the birds have flown and the nest is bare
When the birds have flown and the nest is bare

For you Corrina, and perhaps another un-named bird

Brian S. wrote:From Perugia Shock:
Studio Aperto aired today some frames of the garage video showing at about 8.31 a guy going out of the garage and at 8.41 a 'white spot' going towards the house. Someone interpreted the guy as Rudy and the white spot as Meredith. Someone else even 'saw' the white spot going out of a car...But the two figures are totally unrecognizable.

Meredith arriving home at 8:41 seems a little to early even for me.

So - I'm left thinking the white spot is most likely Amanda - perhaps she even got out of the car driven by the "drug dealer" that Guede reported - Raffaele? Apparently others are thinking this same thing. This would put all 3 of them in the vicinity of the cottage, but did Raffaele then go back home for a bit, or go stash the car, or what? Were their movements and methods perfomed specifically to avoid being spotted by anyone? As mentioned, the camera clock may not be so precise. All along, it has been impossible to shake the perception that something evil was up that night among each of these three suspects; something that none of the bastards are yet willing to talk about.